is that good play by obama? >> well, in the first four years of the -- of his administration, the first term, his great job was to keep the financial sector from collapsing. so he had someone intimately familiar in tim geithner with wall street. in the second four years his great job is balancing fiscal issues, and he has in jack lew somebody who, as eleanor said, knows the budget up and down, tremendous respect, a great negotiator. keep in mind, jack lew is something that people don't understand. he is a liberal fiscal hawk. he's a liberal deficit hawk. he's got very strong views on the safety net and funding of government but he really does believe in doing what can be done to reduce deficits ?ee.'s coming at that time beginning of president obama's second term. second terms are rough. they eventually lead into lake duckery. people jump ship who are working for him. sew needs a strong group to handle the deficiencies that are inherent in a second term. you understand me? >> i understand. i think that's right.